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I can wrap my mind around either possibility -- that they were lovers, or that they weren't ... but I do think I prefer to think that they weren't. That way they can still have their "first time." When I think of them consummating... somehow it's much more exciting if they are "new" to each other in the physical/sexual sense.

LadyKate63, "Would a consummation ruin the magic?"

I think what hooked me on A/X initially was the spontaneous chemistry I saw from TR on. There was this tantalising sense of history between them, and their actions seemed to speak SO much louder than words... It was like they were on a different level to everyone around them. But I only became a true shipper after TLW, when we got a glimpse of just how complex these two characters are, and how contradictory and passionate their feelings for each other are. It just felt very 'real' to me.

Tango, "What do you like/love about X/A?"

In TR and TF, Xena basically plotted to thwart a scheme that Ares had set in motion, in an attempt to trap her so as to lure her back into his service. She used manipulation to beat him at his own game, in a purely defensive way.

By contrast, in AUS, Ares didn't do anything to her. The threat came from Athena. Ares was offering his help -- as part of a "bargain," to be sure (which was not very nice!), but still. Xena basically manipulated him into helping her and then welshed on the deal. So I'd say she had every reason to feel bad about it. By contrast, in TR and TF, she is quite visibly satisfied with her victory.

LadyKate, "Xena more manipulative than Ares?"

I am reminded of something my cousin said when she watched her one and only Xena ep, OAHAF. "I know why you like them [A/X] together: they match". Short and to the point.

Tango, "What do you like/love about X/A?"

Actually, the real genius is that it's not "bad boy and good girl." It's "bad boy and bad-girl-trying-to-be-good." Makes it that much more interesting.

LadyKate63, "What do you like/love about X/A?"

It was the bad boy appeal.[for becoming a shipper]

I don't know that I need to elaborate, but I will say the added factor of the woman opposite said bad boy didn't pursue him, think she could change him, "suffocate" him with rewards of love if he listened to the sermon...(thinking Susan Sarandon and her baseball players tied up before sex so she could force poetry reading on them! )

She just was who she was, behaved in accordance with her new path, and sometimes her old sensabilities, and dared to speak as an equal to him and was honest about doing things her way and gave a damn enough to explain that to him at different points along the way, and the constant that there was always a kindof unacknowledged, begrudging respect (on Xena's part, Ares spoke of it 'course) and unspoken connection between these two (again, on Xena's part, Ares spoke of it-"I burn inside you...") that was utterly unique to the rest of the world- and the beauty of it all is that, despite himself and her assumption that he couldn't understand and act on love as she learned to do, HE DID, and for her. Oooooh yea.

Nittany Lioness 1, "What do you like/love about X/A?"

I actually hadn't given it much thought up to now and I really haven't decided on any specific thing(s) - I've been fascinated by this relationship ever since "The Reckoning" aired - Lucy Lawless and Kevin Smith threw sparks all over my living room with their role interaction. That Xena was tempted was obvious - that Ares was... wanting her (for lack of a better term ) was obvious - the screen was positively steaming. That Xena couldn't let herself be seduced was obvious - which probably throws back to what LK said - bad boy, bad girl who wants to be good which created a tension absolutely unmatched by any other Xena pairing. Let's face it folks - the guy your parents didn't want you to date was the one you just had to go out with, wasn't he? It was an ingenious idea that blazed with all the ease of Ares tossing his hand in a gesture to build a fire - not that Kevin Smith's suave looks hurt the pairing any After all, how could Xena be "indifferent" to all that masculinity that Ares emulated? He was her equal in talent, in looks, in sex appeal, in intelligence, in coniving - all of the others fell sadly short after that episode. I was hooked!

SaphiraBleu, "What do you like/love about X/A?"

To me, Ares has never LOVED a woman before. To him sex was a physical release, like he said about his time with Mavican 'a little diversion'. Then he looses his heart to Xena, and for the first time, the sexual act has a whole other meaning. Maybe it's not a loss of virginity, but there's a definite loss of innocence here, and the fact that to Xena, soemthing that ultimately meant the world to Ares, was just a strategical tactic, always left me feeling sorry for him at the end of AUS

aeverett, "Is Ares a Good Lover?"

That was one of the most wonderful things about the way Ares acted around Xena [in AUS]-- with her, every kiss was "the first time", and it was obvious that being so vulnerable was a new and unnerving experience for him.

Incidentally, Xena did the same thing. With Ares, she became vulnerable (even in AUS, where she tries to play it rough at first, she eventually gives in to that vulnerability). To see two such powerful and headstrong people become totally vulnerable around each other is intensely erotic, IMO.

Tango, "Is Ares a Good Lover?"

they may try for a while to have a distant relationship, each doing their own thing and meeting up for passionate encounters... but eventually they'll want more, esp Ares. The need to know the other is yours- exclusively and their heart is filled with YOU, is what is craved. That means a real life together, I think. That's what being in real deep love is all about. All that "if you love them, let them go" is nonsense.

Nittany Lioness 1, "When do you think X & A could become a couple?"

The two actors had great rapport with each other, and they got to play a wide range of material from simple antagonism through grudging respect to involuntary attraction/obsession. It made for some fascinating television, much more than I initially expected from a campy fantasy show.

CasualFan, "More Subber to Shipper questions..."

I agree about the first love part [for Ares]. Not just first love but the fact that Ares is someone who never thought he could be in love and never wanted it. And almost certainly will never love anyone again.

LadyKate63, "What do you like/love about X/A?"

However, there's a lot more in TR that is actually consistent with later episodes, if you look at it. The physical closeness - and the way both of them are comfortable with this. The "heat" - when you rewatch that episodes, it's really incredible to think it's their first episode together! The sparks between them are amazing. And of course, the "game" - the way both of them play off each other, and are amused by one another. That smile on Xena's face when she can see him, and no one else can.

If you choose to accept that she'd never seen him before, you really have to ignore a lot more than a single line - you have to ignore their incredible connection that is so visible, right from their first moments together.

carlyXWP, "'I used to wonder what you looked like...'"

I liked the character of Ares from the start but it was the glimpse of his "mortal" potential in TLW that made him really interesting for me. Since I watched the show mostly in reruns and not always in proper order, it's hard for me now to remember when I first developed shippery tendencies. I definitely saw shippery potential in THE FURIES (never thought Ares was her pop, and definitely got the impression that as nasty as he was he cared about her in his own twisted way). However, it was the Season 5 storyline that made me a true shipper and made me really really REALLY love Ares. Obviously he was a god then -- but the thing that appealed to me was how he was being changed by his awareness of possible mortality, and his apparent willingness even as far back as GFC to become mortal for Xena's sake.

LadyKate63, "Love Ares? How..."

I loved Ares right off from the beginning in The Reckoning. He was sensuous, seductive and charming, he was suave and dark and really looked good even with the hood and awful fake facial hair

I was hooked on Ares.....although I must admit I felt alittle betrayed when he teamed up with Hope and Dahawk....but ya cant help lovin that guy even when you should hate him.

I found him incredibly appealing as both a god and a mortal but it was the god I fell for.

As a god he was dangerously appealing as though he were some forbidden fruit, irresistible because he seems so untouchable, not only that...but the power thing is really alluring. Its hard to explain.

As a mortal he was powerless....the guy couldn't hurt a fly. He was adorable in a more of a cute and spunky way. He was kinda goofy too which can be incredibly tasty. He was really sensitive which is one trait I really found to be the most appealing about him as a mortal...and he still had sex-appeal, and sense of humor but he was kinda sad too. He was out of place...and it reflected....Like some lost puppy. Him and Horace had something in common afterall.

Str1fe, "Love Ares? How..."

I certainly groove mightily on Ares and Xena's chemistry, their personalities, their banter, their matching dark beauty....but speaking for myself as a woman? I'm not all the time envisioning myself in a MarySue (or whatever it's called) scenerios...

It's more for me about how awesome they are together and how exhilarating their intense story is, how they affect each other with dazzling results...the angst of it and the smoldering sensuality of it- more so than how I personally feel about the type of man Ares is and how more or less appealing it is to my sensabilities.

The sad yet hopeful - surprising, redeeming love conclusion to it all is satisfying to dwell on in discussion for me- it's the whole of their dynamic, what it represents, and what it came to shatter about their walls and fears,,, and those unspoken details of body language and action that knock my socks off.

Without the Xena part of the equation, I don't have nearly the interest in the character of Ares.

Nittany Lioness 1, "Love Ares? How..."

I do think Ares was sensitive, yes. Even as a god. Though to his own feelings more than to others'.

It's pretty clear that Ares' feelings are genuinely hurt in AUS for instance, when he finds out that Xena tricked him. And even before that, in the Tartarus scene in GFC when he can't bring himself to say "I love you" to Xena ... awww ... that was sweet.

And there's his grief in LDITE... the very moving scene where Ares tries to stop Xena from "committing suicide" -- where he takes the sword away from her and says, "no, Xena... no" -- it's almost like he's making an extra effort to be gentle and caring with her and these things don't come easily to him.

As a mortal, of course, his emotions are very raw, especially in CH.

LadyKate63, "Love Ares? How..."

To some extent, on some level, it's the god she desires -- but it's the mortal she can love. And he can't be both at the same time.

LadyKate63, "The Abstract and the Concrete of Ares and Xena"

Ares seems to want to convince himself that he can't love her unconditionally, based on what he said in her euology in LDITE, but if you think about it, he's among the few (namely Gabrielle being the other) that DID love her unconditionally, whether or not he realizes it. It's more than just desire when she's his warrior in the past, and than when she changes he realizes it's love. he loved her as the brutal destoryer and as the Warrior Princess, he can accept both sides to her, and while I think he changes his prefernce for which side he prefers, he still accepts both of them, I'm not sure any of her other lovers do that.

asere e, "Describing the Xena/Ares relationship?"

Honorable mention [for hottest X/A scene] for me goes to the Apple-feeding scene in YAT. His metaphoric "Mmm, it's juicy" and literally getting his rocks off, with that playboy joy, all while she reacts to him with excitement and cat-that-swallowed-the canary satisfaction -- let's face it, they had sex just then without ever touching.

Anyway, from the moment he walks in the scene, they once again, in true X/A classic fashion, operate on their own playing field - their stares lock and they're on another level

Nittany Lioness 1, "Hottest X/A Scenes"

I think Xena's reaction to Ares when she united the chakrams, the playful/comfortable tone of their banter, shows that she was far from pissed off about the bathtub incident.

If anything, I think that it helped her to be more relaxed with him. I think Xena was always afraid that her whole attraction to Ares was more an attraction to both of their dark sides. But that memory of being so innocent of all that bad stuff, and still having a bond and attraction with him, I think it helped her to be more comfortable with the fact that, yes, she definitely is attracted to him because now she knows that it's *not* just that she has a "thing for bad boys".

Goddess Del, "How did Xena feel about the Chakram bath moment?"

I'm not sure she wants to let go of the ideal that ares is bad for her. if she admits that he isn't she'll have to deal with him and her feelings for him.I also think she's scared that she might actually be happy with him and she doesn't want to be that happy because she thinks she doesn't deserve to be

PrincessDeirdre3585, "Ares: Bad or good for Xena?"

When Xena says, "You always got to me, Ares -- but you're bad for me" I don't think she necessarily means it. I saw it more as she had just revealed her feelings to him and the "bad for me" was a bit of a cover up.

I can not recall a time even as far back as Season 1 that Xena was so weak in her resolve to do good that she ever seriously entertained the idea of going back to her evil ways because of something Ares said or did. I don’t think he held that kind of power over her. I realize there were those moments of weakness that she gave into but that’s a far cry from her giving into her darkside and turning evil again. So I’m not sure in what ways Ares would be bad for her.

XenaandAres, "Ares: Bad or good for Xena?"

I think she's afraid that he accepts her so completely, warts and all. She doesn't want to get to a stage where she herself would accept these things about her, because she feels it would be a betrayal of the people whose lives she has ruined.

What's more, he has the tendency to bring out her darker side because he appreciates it. She doesn't want to feel any external encouragement in that department.

Of course, this is exactly why Ares would be good for her. With him, she would eventually see that she has it within herself to remain on the right path. It would set her free.

Tango, "Ares: Bad or good for Xena?"

I think that part of what's going on [in GFC] here is that he's grappling with feelings he doesn't understand and doesn't know how to handle, and on a certain level I find it very endearing. And I do think he has an adorable puppy dog look in God Fearing Child....

LadyKate63, "Awwww.."

I think she trusts him to some extent (to the extent of relying on his information about which gods the assassins came from), but that trust is quite limited.

LadyKate63, "Awwww.."

I don't know that they were ever really enemies even in the worst of times but at that point I don't think they were really ally's either.

XenaandAres, "Awwww.."

Ares is very unsure of himself around Xena, mainly, I think, because all those feelings are so new to him -- and also because they've got such a complicated history and he knows she could hold a lot of things against him. Look at how timid he is in GFC! (I love that scene.)

In the subsequent S5 eps, it's interesting... he's quite arrogant and even overbearing at times -- but he never really makes direct sexual advances to Xena, or any attempt to aggressively/assertively seduce her. (The scene at the foot of the cross in EVE which some have described as being akin to attempted rape is a lot more about lashing out in rage and pain -- he's ostensibly making sexual demands there, but I think that if Xena suddenly yielded he wouldn't know what to do.) And of course, in CH and OAHAF he's positively meek. It's almost as if he's let Xena know that he desperately loves her and wants her, and he'll let her take it from there.

So .... what would have happened in CH if, as Xena started to walk away, Ares went after her, pulled her into an embrace and passionately kissed her? (I definitely think she's hesitant as she walks away... don't you think that when he calls out "Xena!" and she immediately stops and turns, it's almost as if she's waiting for him to stop her?)

And why doesn't he?

I think Tango may be right -- he would be putting everything on the line, and if she rejects him then, he doesn't even have any hope left.

LadyKate63, "Timid Ares?"

Without Ares, Xena would feel more in control -- there would be less temptation. Far more importantly however, after the 25 year leap there would be no one left who knows her in all her guises, from warlord to good girl. Gabrielle is wonderful, but she can't truly know Xena's past in the same way that Ares does; not only because she wasn't there, but because she is a profoundly different person.

In a way, the plight of a person thrust 25 years into the future is similar to the plight of an immigrant. Everything is foreign, and even the people who come from the original time (or country) have grown so different that it's almost impossible to relate to them on a deep level. The only people "immigrating" with Xena are Gabrielle and Ares, and of those two, Ares is the one who shared the oldest of Xena's experiences. It's a peculiarity of immigration that common background tends to draw people much closer, even if back in their original country (or time ) the differences would have been more prominent than the similarities.

Tango, "Xena's life without Ares"

I will agree that Ares (Kevin Smith) sure is easy on the eyes. As to whether my "shipperiness" is "all about" Kevin Smith/Ares, I do think that some of it is that he seems to have a lot of chemistry with Lucy Lawless for me, and part of this is that I think both he and Lucy/Xena are very attractive and magnetic individuals.

Daughter of Tiaran, "More Subber to Shipper questions..."

Yes, the tragedy and darkness of the romance is what is most appealing to me. The passion that they share despite themselves and trying to resist what they feel but failing. The cat and mouse game, all the problems that are a part of their relationship, the things that keep them apart. And yet, under it all, they do care. The equality they share as people and the understanding and acceptance they have for each other, for each other's places in the world.

It's a very complex relationship and that's what's so intriguing to me.

Aurora Goddess, "More Subber to Shipper questions..."

I think _something_ was there all along, for sure. What that something was is a bit hard to say. Chemistry, at first. They cared for one another from the outset, as Charmed Fan pointed out -- and there was always that sense of history and mutual desire, as well as of course their, uh, common interests in the war department.

But was it love... I don't think love ever just 'happens'. It has to grow from something, a combination of other feelings, until it is finally acknowledged by both people, first to themselves then to one another.

It would be too long to rehash the whole relationship progress, but I don't think there was any one moment which made them realise their feelings. I do think that it took Ares most of S5 to figure out what those 'urges' he was having really were -- and it took Xena until after his sacrifice to learn to trust him again, after the stuff that happened in S5. Basically, in the process of self-discovery, Ares manages to mess up the relationship he _did_ have with Xena; and then it takes the sacrifice in MH to untangle that mess.

The MH sacrifice was obviously a pivotal moment, but I don't think that it was the moment of discovery for either of them -- although it may have been a surprise to Ares just how far he was prepared to go for Xena's sake. I think it was more an acknowledgement of something that had been growing for a while. For Xena, it was also the moment of ... not so much revelation, but of trust: realising that she _could_ trust those feelings he keeps telling her about, and therefore allowing her to give way to some of her own feelings, like the tenderness in S6.

Tango, "The development of the Xena/Ares relationship?"

I definitely don't think she had any interest in being a goddess -- I think that "tempted" look on her face was a combination of lust for Ares the god and the rush of power there was when he bit into the apple, sadness that mortal Ares was gone, and certainty that things were back to "normal" between her and Ares -- i.e., she'd say no and he'd accept it. Yet at the same time it's so plainly NOT normal for them, because everything's changed since he was last a god.

XenaAmber, "The return of love in YAT - was Xena tempted?"

I think there is something sensual involved but it's more in the closeness, with Ares' hand so close to her lips [in the apple feeding scene in YAT). You can see her eyes are sort of hooded, definitely a "desire" kind of look.

I think she hesitates just to have that moment of closeness before she has to break it -- but she knows all along she'll have to break it.

Tango, "The return of love in YAT - was Xena tempted?"

I don't think I"d go so far as to say they're doomed from the start.

It was soo utterly out of left field and a complete shock to Xena that Ares actually acted in a selfless and devasting (for him) manner by giving up that which he treasured most-his immortality and godhood. So Xena takes to heart that SHE is what he treasures most.

And that's mighty powerful. It even has Xena speechless, no cynical quips, no excuses and backpeddling, looking for that trademarked GOW rationale, just--"he gave up everything."

I think there's alot of hope there, despite her later- 1 in a billion remark.

Nittany Lioness 1, "The Abstract and the Concrete of Ares and Xena"

Being in love is all fine and good, but being in a relationship always entails compromises: otherwise, how could you cope with any disagreement? You can either do things your own way (which more often than not means _going_ your own way), or you have to come to some sort of agreement.

I don't think Xena was very good at compromises, even with Gabrielle (look at what happened with baby Hope...). It is possible that the idea of a relationship, especially with Ares, frightens her in part for this reason.

However, I don't think that Xena was a very forward-looking kind of person: she tried to live in the present instead, possibly as a consequence of having to stop herself from dwelling on past misdeeds. She doesn't strike me as the type to be planning her retirement -- or even her agenda for next week. So... I doubt whether she would have weighed up the 'pros and cons' of any relationship's future before entering into it, except in passing. She would have probably discovered that relationships require compromises after the first fight.

That is not to say that Xena didn't realise that a relationship with Ares would be difficult; obviously, she did, or she wouldn't have told him in CH that he's bad for her. But did anyone notice that she didn't say "you would be bad for me"? She said, "you still are", present tense. You are bad for me _now_, because right now I don't know what I feel and you could mess with my head even without meaning to. Or whatever. The point is, her rejection/postponement is based on her feelings and fears NOW, not in the future. I don't think she would let herself consider the future too closely. It's -- well, scary.

Tango, "The Abstract and the Concrete of Ares and Xena"

if ""shipperiness" includes mutual fascination, alure and passion, without necessarily implying romantic love or "committed relationships," then TBS could surely be considered a shipper episode.

CasualFan, "Ares and Xena in TBS"

TBS, not shippery? That depends on what you mean by shippery. Does it have to be about love? I think that it's very shippery in the "read between the lines, see between the moves" kind of way that a lot of the earlier episodes had: what I see is the sense of history and even camaraderie between them, the way Xena parries Ares' sexual innuendo, the way she fears her own desire, and the way she gives in to that desire for the space of one brief tango... *be still my heart*

No, it's not light and fluffy. It's not even about love, or change, or recognising their feelings. In fact, it's not even about the two of them, in the sense of building the relationship. It's more like TDHD, like "Sacrifice" -- shared moments that reveal tantalising glimpses of the connection between them. Yes, Ares is playing the role of "Darkness Personified" for Xena here. But he is also, unmistakeably, Ares. And that look of recognition when Xena sees him on the throne, the smirk and the hands-on-her-hips move, the playfulness even in the darkest moment - that's not symbolism. It's what Xena thinks of when she thinks of Ares, and how she responds to him. Ditto the sensuality of her bearing, and the way she loses herself in the dance... It says a great deal, and not about her desire to fight.

Of course, you could see the whole episode as purely symbolic. But that, for me, would be missing half the point. Besides, you'd miss all the fun.

Tango, "Ares and Xena in TBS"

I think it's all really about [when making love to Xena] Ares not wanting, in essence, to make it look like he's trying to take advantage of the situation. To him, it's all about how she feels, I think and if he were to come onto her when he wasn't entirely sure that's what she wanted, it would make him look like he was taking advantage of her or trying to press the situation--and there could be a good chance that wouldn't go well with her.

There is a lot of baggage between them, and he is the cause of that baggage, so if he were to be assertive with her, then she may turn around and use their past against him because she thinks that all he really wants from her is to get her into his bed. There is that bit of rejection he is afraid of, too, as others have mentioned. If she were to turn him down when he tried to make his move, there would probably not be much of a future for them--and that would tear him apart.

His feelings for Xena are so new and strange for him and, in a way, he gets weak in the knees when he is around her. To feel that way about her was such as shock to him, he didn't know how to handle it, and when he was around her, it made it all the more worse for him to get a grip of himself. So he figured that if there was any chance with her, he would have to let her make the first move. She didn't have much of a reason to trust him, and he needed to show her that he wasn't coming onto her for the sake of coming onto her. He wanted her in everything that she was and he wanted her love. And to prove that to her, he would have to wait for her to make her moves on him so that when they are together in situations, he knows that it's ultimately what she wants.

Aurora Goddess, "Timid Ares?"

My guess is that it's a question of vulnerability. As long as Ares is bargaining and negotiating, he's in a position of power (not that Xena is a totally powerless victim, of course -- but he does have power). For him to show his desire openly, to show his need for her, is to make himself vulnerable... because of his feelings for her.

LadyKate63, "Timid Ares?"

Even though ares is bad and is always trying to manipulate xena into doing his dirty work, u could always tell he would never harm her intently. And u also notice that he loves her to no end. And for xena even though she fights against evil and claims that ares is evil and she wants nothing to do with him, u could sort of tell that he will always have a place in her heart. Even though she wouldn't let herself admit it out loud.

joxsonia, "Why are you a shipper?"

I think one of the reasons that I like the relationship is because I am not fond of that old saying 'opposites attract'. I think one thing that makes the relationship so dynamic is how similar the characters are. Both have a dark side, only Ares choses to embrace his. This in itself made a relationship between the two all the more interesting.

I love all the witty remarks and comments that exchange between the two and the way they seem to know each other so well. I am also a bit of a romance fan so Ares being changed by love and falling in love with Xena was was a special bonus. I think it also gave us a chance to see new depths and also growth in the characters, especially Ares.

The chemistry between them was excellent and it was a shame that we didn't get to see the relationship, on the show, develop even further.

spiderweb15, "Why are you a shipper?"