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In TD, TBS and Chakram, the X/A interaction is just amazing. It's probably most antagonistic in The Deliverer but even there, it's really striking how playful Xena is with Ares considering he only recently tried to get her to kill her mother. I love that little grin when she says "Oh, I dunno -- I kinda like the look of it there" after he asks her to move her sword she's got stuck in his chest. From the look on his face in that scene in The Deliverer I also get the distinct impression that he's getting off on her sword sliding out of his chest. Or wants her to think he is. It also struck me how casual they both really are about "the insanity thing" -- especially Ares, of course, but to a large extent Xena too -- almost like on some level, they both know it's a game with its own rules. And it's remarkable how she talks to him as ... well, not an ally exactly, but not exactly an enemy either. Someone she can talk to, at any rate.

LadyKate63, "Shippy ramblings"

I don't believe that Ares ever thought that he would never have a chance with Xena. I honestly believe he felt there was always hope, at least a little bit. As long as Xena reacted to him the way that she did, there would always be hope in his mind.

I liked the fact that Ares was relentless in his pursuit of love with Xena. I liked that he wasn't willing to give up and that, even when things seemed hopeless, he still felt there was a chance. I love his exchange at the end of Coming Home when he tells Xena "So, you're saying there is a chance?" He'll grab any scarp of hope he can get. He seems almost confident (and maybe even cocky) about his "chance". And Xena can't help but smile at his...persistence. She even likes it when he says in You Are There "I guess you know I'll never stop trying" and she responds with "I'd expect nothing less". She likes that he won't give up on her. It's not like he is constantly nagging her and being a pest but I think she enjoys this game because she's not completely convinced, in herself, that there will never be a chance for them.

Even after Xena has told him that it's a "one in a billion" chance, that didn't seem to phase him, make him feel hopeless. And I think this is because he believed that even what Xena says isn't necessarily what she means. He probably knew there were other reasons for her telling him that he was "bad for her".

And, above all, I think he simply continues his pursuit because there can't and won't ever be a woman like her for him. And maybe it's slightly pathetic that he keeps coming after a woman that won't be with him. I think, though, that if Xena wasn't reacting to him the way that she was, it would have been different. Xena was as much of a cause for pulling him along as he was for following.

Aurora Goddess, "Did Ares has real hopes of getting with Xena?"

Although Ares did show his feelings for Xena in the earlier seasons, I don't think he truly understood the depth of them. He knew he wanted her and he enjoyed the thrill of the chase, but I don't think it was until he was faced with his own demise and also Xena's "death" (the botched plan in LDITE), her return and the threat of her losing her again (fight against Athena) that Ares realized how much he really loved her and how important she was to him.

I definately don't see him giving up his godhood prior to Season 5. And in You Are There, I think the only reason he was excited to get his godhood back was because love was missing from the world and things weren't exactly a fairy tale between him and Xena. I'm sure that is why Xena gave Ares the apple first. She probably knew that if she gave the apple to Aphrodite and love returned either he wouldn't accept it, because he knows that his best chance of being with Xena would come as a mortal or she herself would prevent him from taking a bite.

When faced with losing the prospect of being with him and the sudden rush of love back into her heart, perhaps Xena was afraid she'd react out of character and profess something to him that would have made him stay and of course she had to do what was right for the greater good. Love was needed back in the world and love needed war to balance her, so Xena had to sacrifice her mortal Ares and return his godhood to him.

XenAres1, "Ares and Mortality!"

Shipperdom is about longing, about that delicious bite you shouldn't take, about sitrrings in your soul you once celebrated but now deny, about resisting the urge to reciprocate an attraction so strong you lose your bearings in it's mere presence, and most seriously and importantly about finding satisfaction and reward in conquering the stumbling blocks to surprisingly, amazingly find something deeper and mind blowing on the other side.

There's a reason the "Oww" kiss at Coming Home's end was so delicate, tender, soft, silent, and genuine: It was in essense their "first kiss" - after all the passionate encounters they've had, it was the two of them finally on the other side of the long game, stripped of expectations of who they should be, and simply act on the still joy and quiet relief found in truly connecting and agreeing on something

Nittany Lioness 1, "Why is he good for her?"

Ares has obviously had experience in the past with the ladies, but I think he would take a very different approach when dealing with Xena. After all, she was the one woman he ever actually loved; I'm sure that before her, women were merely means of having a little fun. So, with them, it was probably much more about sex than anything else.

However with Xena, I think he'd want more from her than just that so, like what we were shown in AUS and EB (though it was a dream) Ares doesn't want to head into it with her full force--he wants to experience it slowly, perhaps so he can enjoy every moment of it knowing that it would probably be the last time he could be with her. I'm sure he'd want to savoir that.

Even in POV, when they were gettin' cozy in the field, the way he was touching her stomach and shoulder, smelling her hair... He was pretty gentle with her there and she seemed quite comfortable with it too.

Also, I think he'd want to win Xena's love along with everything that goes with that, so he would want to be the kind of lover that Xena would want. The question is, what does Xena want?

Personally, as a lover, I think Ares could be quite a good one. It all really depends on if Xena were into it or not. If Xena wants it rough, I'm sure he'd be all for that. But if she'd want it gentle, I think he could do that too. I think he has the capabilities for either and the bottom line would be to make it good for Xena.

And I tend to define having sex and making love as two different things. One is just about satisfying desire and urges. The other, I think, is much more about the person’s feelings--that both parties should have not only a physical but an emotional connection as well. The latter is the more romantic, IMO.

Aurora Goddess, "Is Ares a Good Lover?"

Even if Xena didn't admit outright (to herself or others) that she had been a willing participant [in a "what if" scene if they had gone all the awy in the bath scene in Chakram] rather than a hapless victim, this incident would still have brought her closer to Ares in the long-term -- because she would be aware of it subconsciously.

Tango, "What if Xena and Ares had done the deed in CHAKRAM?"

Well, Xena doesn't exactly need protecting. But I do think Ares' behavior has certain chivalrous overtones that are quite sweet... actually, precisely because we are well aware that Xena doesn't need his protection and can do just fine fending for herself.

LadyKate63, "Ares and Xena's feelings in YOU ARE THERE"

For me, a shipper is someone who finds the Xena/Ares relationship interesting. It's someone who enjoys the attraction between Xena and Ares and may hope for a real relationship to develop between them, whether it is long-lasting or not. It's someone who gets excited about the interection between these two characters and wants something "more" to develop between them.

I think that part of the reason Xena wouldn't have been able to be with Ares was because of just what she had said in "Coming Home": he's bad for her. That's not to say that I couldn't see something developing between them at some point and Xena giving into the feelings that she has for him, but on the show, it was really more of a cat and mouse game, with each one of them pulling on the other but neither fully giving in.

I could see Xena getting together with Ares if they were able to put the past behind them. I think that if Ares had treated her differently, things might have been different between them. But the fact that he didn't treat her right--and went about trying to get her as he would try to win a war--made the story much more interesting. The Ares loves Xena storyline was extreemly romantic, I thought. It was against his nature to feel what he did, and it took a lot of strength on his part to do what he had to do to win her (I think his sacrifice really did up the possibilities he could have had with her--and that she might have eventually ended up with him afterwards).

As for Gabrielle, I don't really think a relationship between Xena and Ares would have affected her friendship with Gabrielle. As I don't believe that Xena and Gabrielle were lovers, I think having Ares with Xena wouldn't have been much of a problem (except, both of them would have to get over the things Ares did to Xena). I do believe, that, no matter what, Gabrielle would always be the most important person in Xena's life, even if Xena did love Ares and was with him. So I don't think that Xena's friendship with Gabrielle would have been less if she were with Ares.

Aurora Goddess, "Questions for a shipper"

As for it being a "tragic/forbidden romance" - well but of course. There's tragic elements more in the later-middle part of their journey. Though I think it actually ends on an open, rather hopeful note (Path of Vengeance, please ), it does indeed have that forbidden fruit / temptation thread woven in that makes the audience hungry to see them indulge in each other. Things taste better when one suffers mightily to get to the goods.

But what I think makes the tragic portions so pallatable is that they largely sabotage their own hope for some sort of communion between them because of their fear of what they are actually feeling for each other. It's not just outside circumstances that poetically keep them apart ala any soap opera story of the day, it's their own stubborness and dizzying conflicting passions for each other that constantly dance in a circle. And that's just too fun to watch and root for.

Nittany Lioness 1, "More Subber to Shipper questions..."

There is something quite fulfilling about forbidden/denied/unfulfilled love. There’s tension, there's longing, there’s conflict, there’s excitement. With Ares and Xena, I can’t see anything but. I do think that it’s this hope you have of them getting together someday that makes you so invested in their relationship. You keep coming back for more to see where it will take them. And obviously if they do get together, that element will be lost, as will some of the appeal of that relationship. So it’s really kind of twisted; you want them to get together but you don’t really want them together.

But I think it still might have worked for me if Ares and Xena got together because they wouldn’t be just a conventional couple. He would still be the god of war and there would be enough conflict/angst/darkness between them to keep things interesting.

Skye42, "X/A: is denied/forbidden/unfulfilled love the main appeal?"

I think she realized that his feelings were sincere in Amphipolis Under Siege, when she saw that he was actually willing to side with her against Athena. When he says "I would have kept our bargain" and she says "I know you would have," there is a tangible note of regret in her voice, and I think that at the end she doesn't quite like what she's doing to him. However, I think it's only in Motherhood, after his sacrifice, that she realizes just how much he actually loves her -- and realizes that he's capable of unselfish love. His sacrifice comes as a huge shock to her.

LadyKate63, "When did Xena realize/accept Ares' love for her was sincere?"

I think Xena was aware of her attraction to Ares from The Reckoning -- or much sooner if she knew him earlier! -- but the first time she had an inkling that she might have deeper feelings for him was in Ten Little Warlords. That was when she first saw the human side of the God of War, and even saw him as someone who, maybe, wanted to change just as she did. She was very moved when he said, "You never know the kind of change you could inspire in a man -- or a god." Also, think of the sadness in her expression when he says "You saved me -- I won't forget" and she says, "Yes, you will." And the disappointment when she thinks that he is not going to return her to her body and that he has forgotten.

I don't think she's "in love" with him after that, but I think she is aware of the humanity in him and aware that maybe she could love him. IMO her hidden feelings are very evident in Sacrifice II -- there's a lot of hurt and disappointment (not just anger) in her reaction to Ares' betrayal (in siding with Dahak). Particularly when it also looks like a rejection of HER ("Good bye, Xena -- it has been fun"). No, it's not "love" but again, a bond is definitely there.

I think another turning point is when Ares tries to tell her he loves her in God Fearing Child -- I think one reason she's so upset is that she thinks he's just playing with her, and I doubt she'd be quite so upset if his love meant nothing to her. Her reaction in the EB dream when he "proves his sincerity" is telling as well.

I agree with Aurora, I don't think she ever consciously acknowledges to herself that she "in love" with Ares. But she knows she's drawn to him and has feelings for him that are deeper than mere sexual attraction. And she knows she has to struggle against those feelings because he's "bad for her." But she comes pretty close with the "You always got to me" in CH.

LadyKate63, "When did Xena fall in love with Ares?"

Whenever I look at this picture [from AUS], it tells me that Xena was not expecting to feel the "something" she was feeling. She thought it would be a planned seduction and she'd walk away from it like it was nothing.

The look in her eyes gives her away. I think she rationlized to herself (and why she thought the plan was a safe one) that the dream in EB was all Ares' doing and that her own subconscience had nothing to do with it...until this moment in AUS. She looks surprised...like she can't believe that she wants the man/god underneath her more than she is willing to admit to herself. Hence...why it would explain that even after the wall exploded in, they were still caught up in eachother instead of Xena going along with the plan. Darn that Cyrene....her timing is just as bad as Gabby's.

XenAres1, "Rainy day pics..."

I love the looks they share, [in the first scene in The Deliverer] the way they talk to each other when they're fighting. It's almost like foreplay with them. When she thrusts her sword a little bit harder into his chest, when he bites his lip and gives her that look as he (finally) steps back. Yowza.

It is like a game between them, a game where they both understand the rules and each other. That's why I prefer this ship, because of the antagonism that goes hand in hand with the attraction. One look, one almost-kiss is hotter than a thousand mutual "I love you's."

I even love the way she just sliced his arm in Motherhood. She could have easily killed him, like she had just done to a bunch of his brothers, uncles and cousins, but she didn't. She gave him a cut on the arm. As a shipper, this means to me that she doesn't want to kill him, doesn't even want to hurt him much, and that makes me all squishy inside because from Xena, this is pretty much a declaration of love.

Aresbitch, "Shippy ramblings"

Well, I'm not sure that their relationship is doomed.

But if it is...

Maybe it's because "the impossible" that Xena wants is some resolution of the tension between Ares' godhood and his mortality/humanity.

Maybe Ares' godhood is an inalienable part of what Xena desires -- but it's only the mortal that she can love.

So, either as a god or as a mortal, he can never be everything she wants/needs.

Not only that, but one way of looking at it is that she knows he's meant to be a god, and doesn't "do the mortal thing well." So to the extent that she loves the mortal Ares -- she's doomed to lose him in one way or another.

On the other hand, even if she can love Ares God of War, they have no real future because of the whole immortal/mortal issue.

LadyKate63, "The Abstract and the Concrete of Ares and Xena"

If Xena and Ares had done it in Chakram, at first I think it might have had an adverse affect on their relationship afterwards, whether or not it turns out that she becomes pregnant because of it.

I think Xena would be a little wary, confused and untrusting of Ares, mostly because it does seem like he was taking advantage of her, even if she was willing. Xena has a lot of pride and she wouldn't admit that she wanted it, and might even blame it on the fact that she was entirely "herself"--and she might be quick to blame someone else because of her own insecurities.

But I think that, over time, it might have strengthened their bond, whether or not Xena wanted to admit it. It might set the stage for Ares realizing what Xena meant to him--because they had done the deed when she was completely innocent and that there was no past between them, no warrior inside her.

For Xena, I think that, especially if she became pregnant, she would have misgivings about it but she might also realize that she feels something for Ares after their encounter. And maybe a child--especially since it was with Xena--will be the thing that could get him to change--which is ultimately something I think Xena would have liked to see out of him, becoming humanized because of their child.

She would probably want the child not to grow up to know violence alone, but maybe if Ares were around, then maybe it would change him into something more than just the GOW--along with realizing that he loves Xena.

Aurora Goddess, "What if Xena and Ares had done the deed in CHAKRAM?"

I actually find the chemistry between A & X more attractive than Ares all by himself. In addition to the physical chemistry, there is also their mental and psychological chemistry, and the "dark/forbidden romance" is very much a part of that.

LadyKate63, "More Subber to Shipper questions..."

I must say that when I first watched "God Fearing Child" and Ares started to talk to Xena about being mortal with her...my heart jumped in my chest and in the back of my mind, I was anticipating that he was going to say he loved her. Once he did, I had become a shipper (of course, at the time, I had no idea about what a "shipper" was) but I definitely was one. I rooted for them (particularly for Ares' feelings for Xena) from then on.

I don't think that Xena was too harsh towards him. I think she was justified in her reaction and, in a way, he did deserve it.

I find it very interesting how Ares tries to deal with his feelings for her in this episode. He's nervous and feels very awkward about these unusual feelings inside him. He is so vulnerable in that scene and when she dares him to say he loves her, he can't do it, his almost gulps and just can't get the words out.

Then when she leaves, he tries to get the ball back in his court, to feel like he is in charge again by throwing in some phony "I thought in your present condition you might be a little more gullible" line. It was just a smoke screen to hide what he was really feeling, and to hide the fact that he had become vulnerable in front of her--and he didn't like it. Everything was very new to him and he had no idea how to handle these changes (probably still unwanted at the time).

The fact that he said he loved her when she could not hear her makes his declaration much more genuine, in my opinion.

A agree about him being a "puppy dog" here. He is extremely vulnerable and lovesick and it really shows in his eyes, the way he hesitates... I plan on making a montage of this moment.

Aurora Goddess, "Awwww.."

there's always the question of will they be together by the end of the story or after the story's over. there are some things about ares that will always bother xena, and i know i'd be very concerned if xena completely accepted them. i'd question her maintenance of her individuality. xena and ares can't be happy-happy all the time, and they can't be constantly fighting, either. i sympathize with how hard it is to find the optimum balance, but i believe that it's possible.

secular atrophy, "X/A: is denied/forbidden/unfulfilled love the main appeal?"

I think Ares has this quality about him [regarding Xena only though]. I dont want to say vulnerable or timid, but what other word would fit better? Like when Xena said that if he would help her in AUS, she's his; he just gives her this amazing look and repeats "Your mine?" and the "Xena I uhhm..." nervousness. I always liked those parts

floacism, "Xena, Ares and their "sex descriptions""

All afternoon I kept thinking of why Xena loves Ares and why Ares loves Xena. Coming from Ares POV, I would think only he loves her because she's her. Xena. Dark and light, he'll take it. From Xena's POV, it's much harder. She loves him...because she loves him. In spite of the path she's on, in spite of having Gabrielle, she loves him. He's like this thing she's got in a box inside herself, that has nothing to do with the road she's on or any decision she makes in her life.

On another level, I think Xena needs Ares the War God as much as she needs Gabrielle to be her light, her 'good' thing. A battery works off of negative and positive, and its been shown that Xena needs her dark side as much as she needs her light so I think in that way, he fullfills a role, just like Gab.

So I guess I'm of two minds about it.

Aresbitch, "Why is he good for her?"

Xena was given a chance to change her life and make a better go at it. Guilt drives her. It's the same for Ares, but instead of guilt, love drives him. Just because he doesn't go out there to save the world or start his own legendary journeys, doesn't mean that he is bad for Xena. As long as his love for her makes him re-think thousands of years of basic instinct, then he has a good chance of succeeding. And of course it wouldn't hurt that his source of inspiration was there to support him, or help him when he stumbles along the way.

XenAres1, "Why is he good for her?"

I don't think there was one single moment that this "thing" between them became love.

There was always that sexual attraction and a sort of mutual understand about each other as far as their darksides. They always seemed to have this almost respect for each other, even when they were adversaries (which was often).

As far as Ares is concerned, I don't think that he was in love with her, per say, from the beginning. I think it was that obsession for the greatest warrior to be back on his side again (and for the chance to get her in his bed too) that, after paying that much attention to her day after day, those feelings of obsession began to grow into something more.

I think the moment it changed for Ares was when he was presented with the idea that his eternity may be up. That's when his feelings really started to surface and it took him all of season 5 to come to terms with--and really latch onto--what he felt.

For Xena, I think it was always an attraction and understanding that she'd had with Ares from the very beginning (perhaps even left over from something that they had shared in the past when she was a warlord). She showed the first bit of tenderness toward him in "Ten Little Warlords" and that's when the first real bit of shipperness showed through in their relationship, I think. But I don't think she ever really knew she loved him until after his sacrifice (and she was able to accept that he loved her, too). I think that after everything that happened between them in "Coming Home", that's when Xena realized she loved him.

For both of them it was a growing feeling that developed slowly. Neither of them expected or perhaps wanted it to happen. Nonetheless, it did and isn't that just how love is?

Aurora Goddess, "The development of the Xena/Ares relationship?"

I don't think he'd have given up his godhood in the early seasons, not even for Xena. He hadn't gone through the fires of his love for her, hadn't held her supposed dead body in his arms, and hadn't had to live without her for 25 years, so he hadn't grown enough to make that decision.

Aresbitch, "Ares and Mortality!"

Obviously not in the early seasons -- but even in S6 (POV), I don't think Ares would voluntarily give up his godhood without any sort of trigger, just on the off-chance he might have a better chance with Xena. However, if it was a clear choice: god, no Xena; mortal, Xena -- then no problem. Goodbye Olympus.

Tango, "Ares and Mortality!"

I think Xena knew that Ares has had genuine feelings for her, but I don't think she equated it to real love until Motherhood. The first moment being in the rain when he flat out told her that he loves her. It was the first time she heard him say those words to her and she was shocked.

But I don't think she accepted that his words and feelings were capable of anything similar to what she would consider to be real love until he made his sacrifice. People have different interpretations of what love is and although Ares was saying he wanted to be with her and protect her and Eve, his selfishness and self-preservation agenda didn't mesh well with Xena's version of what love is.

XenAres1, "When did Xena realize/accept Ares' love for her was sincere?"

Any touch between them was always quite... loaded, shall we say -- especially when it's Xena touching Ares (because that's not just flirting or seeing how far she can push it). Even as early as TLW, when she's bandaging his chest, you can feel the sparks. I don't think that ever really changed.

Tango, "When did Xena fall in love with Ares?"

My personal belief is that they did "do it" in the past when they joined forces professionally (i.e. Armageddon Now II cut footage). Evil Xena seemed to have a particularly voracious sexual appetite, heavy addiction to power and an overwhelming desire to conquer. What better "trophy" to satisfy all three of those characteristics than to take the God of War to bed? I just don't see Evil Xena passing up an opportunity like that.

XenAres1, "Did Xena and Ares ever go all the way?"

Ares has an overexuberant ego, and hates looking and feeling humiliated, especially in front of Xena.

He wouldn't of his own accord conjur up being sucker punched and punched again in the puss by her at the start of the dream. And her list of his sins was another sore spot that he tried quickly to have her drop, "okay, okay, enough said".

And certainly he was not at the vulnerable point yet where he could in all honesty, ask for forgiveness and appear to her as "sincere" in his proclamation of love in "THE REAL WORLD", and even in the dream world couldn't appear legit without it being on the heels of a rescue situation he set -up.

So, I say he inserted himself in her dream state of mind, and developed the ruse to demonstrate his capability for giving up all for her, and for a "safe" environment in which to apologize and ask for forgveness, but that he did NOT control her response to him.

Otherwise, he'd have been the puppet master extraordinaire, and had her fawning over him from the very get-go.

Nittany Lioness 1, "Xena's dream in ETERNAL BONDS"

What do I think of his moves? Hmm,, I loved his from-behind wrapping of his hands around and up Xena's waist in scenes like TBS's tango and POV's red-glow district and on the bed in TR? (or was that her shoulder? well, same idea ). He kisses better IMO than Xena (Lucy ). His abilities? What impressed me? Weeeeeell, trying to keep this from being a Playboy letter... hmmm... if he dove where I believe he dove in EB and was rocking and satisfying Xena in the manner I think he did- with her standing up? THAT'S impressive. Think about it a minute. It's rather difficult to achieve. Let's see what else? Well, it's of course mostly a function of ~that's what they could film, foreplay-wise~ but I thought it was hot that he lingered and paid attention to kissing the neck and breasts in IS and EB. It's a very thrilling thing to be able to lean back and be supported while that's going on, and have your lover be strong enough to push you back to their mouth at the pressure they so desire.

Nittany Lioness 1, "Is Ares a Good Lover?"